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Davina Frederick Esq is an attorney, law firm growth and wealth strategist and the Founder and CEO at Wealthy Woman Lawyer, LLC®. Davina combined her expertise in marketing and her entrepreneurial experience as the owner of a law firm to launch a coaching business for women lawyers. Davina joins Evelyn on the podcast to discuss how women lawyers and legal entrepreneurs can grow their law firms (hint: it's not magic!).
Davina and Evelyn cover law firm growth and marketing including:
- how a practicing lawyer started marketing her own law firm
- if legal marketing Is different from marketing for other businesses
- what Davina knows about legal marketing that other lawyers don’t know - or don’t do
- are there special marketing rules for lawyers?
- why Davina started a business coaching other female law firm owners
- how do free resources - like your Facebook page, your book - help Davina grow her law firm coach business?
- is it harder marketing to other attorneys?
- how much should attorneys be spending on marketing?
- what is Davina's ideal law firm owner client?
About Evelyn Ackah
Evelyn Ackah is the Founder and Managing Lawyer at Ackah Business Immigration Law. We work with individuals and business owners from all over the world. For more information on immigration to Canada or the United States, Ask Evelyn Ackah at Ackah Business Immigration today at (403) 452‑9515 or email Evelyn directly at contact@ackahlaw.com.
Transcript
Evelyn Ackah:
Hello everyone. This is Evelyn Ackah from the Ask Canadian Immigration Lawyer Evelyn Ackah podcast. And I am so delighted today. I have the pleasure of interviewing my friend and colleague Davina Frederick, who is a lawyer as well as a business entrepreneur coach for women in law. And I just want to say, thank you so much for joining us, Davina.
Davina Frederick:
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited and delighted to be here, Evelyn.
Evelyn Ackah:
So Davina is the founder and CEO at Wealthy Women Lawyer, LLC, based in the United States. She has been an entrepreneur for more than 25 years. And I am looking forward to digging deep and learning about your law background, your marketing background, and how you coach and help exceptional women lawyers get to that next level. So let's start with an intro. You can tell me about yourself so that my audience will learn about you and your services and your expertise.
Davina Frederick:
Okay, great. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you having me here. It's been such a delight. You and I have known each other now for a couple of years, and I've had you on my podcast.
Evelyn Ackah:
Yes.
Davina Frederick:
So I'm super excited to be here today and talk to you. So I am a Florida licensed... For the United States, licensed attorney, and have been for 14 years. I started my own law practice right out of law school. But law school and becoming a lawyer, it was a second career for me. Prior to going to law school and becoming an attorney and starting my own practice, I had worked. I had a previous career in marketing, working as a professional copywriter, and over the years, working with agencies and other professional service businesses. So I got an opportunity to go to law school and I seized it and became an attorney.
Davina Frederick:
And I did so... By then I was in my late thirties. And by the time I graduated from law school, I was 40 and I had the opportunity then, to start my own firm because I was married and my husband, would provide that security for me while I took that big leap. And I thought that it's not going to be the big deal, right? Because I had a lot of experience in business, I certainly knew how to get clients. And I really underestimated how difficult it was to be a baby lawyer and be a new business owner at the same time. So over time, I grew my business very successfully. I brought in a partner, we hired a team and set up systems and we ran a very successful law firm business. And I had some things happen in my personal life that just caused me to put on the pause button and really think about where I was headed in my life and my business.
Davina Frederick:
And over a couple of years of trying out some different things, I landed on what my true passion is. I was exposed to coaching, business coaching. And it really changed my life so I developed my skills in that. And really what I was looking for was something that combined the skills that I had developed from my life in business as a marketer for professional service businesses, and my strategic thinking skills, and analytical skills and all those things I had developed being an attorney. And I really wanted to bring those two together. And that's how I wound up becoming a law firm growth strategist and business coach for women lawyers.
Evelyn Ackah:
That's incredible. I love, love, love, love, Davina how you niched your practice. It's not just, "I'm helping everybody who runs a law firm," and it's about growth and it's about women. So tell me about that. Why did you think that this was your niche and your expertise? Obviously, you're a woman, I'm a woman, but we've both worked with men in different capacities. Of course. What was it that you thought was different about women in law?
Davina Frederick:
Yeah, so there are a couple reasons why I niched my practice or my business. And it didn't start out that way, but I started eight going into nine years ago now. But when I started about eight years ago, I knew that I was going to serve professional service-based businesses. So I did not have experience in retail and e-commerce and these kinds of things. I knew for me, professional service had always been where I had been throughout my entire career. And so I began with working with a variety of different professional service business owners, men and women. And I really enjoyed it. I'm a Gemini, so I love that variety and I love having those multiple personalities and everything. It was great, but as I grew my business, I realized a couple of things. One is that for my business, I needed to take my own advice that I give my clients.
Davina Frederick:
And that is the more specific you are speaking to a target audience, the more highly attractive you are to that audience. And the more you're going to repel those people who are not a good fit to work with you. So I took my own advice and I changed the name a couple of years ago and redirected my business. And we became Wealthy Woman Lawyer. Before it was a more general name and it was my name. So, D. Frederick Media and Marketing, and I still have that entity. And we do some other marketing aspects their deliverables through that company with my team. But Wealthy Woman Lawyer is really my passion and where I direct my business. The other thing was, I love men. So people get the mistake that they make thinking that I'm some man-hater or something. But it really was a matter of making a choice for me.
Davina Frederick:
And one of the reasons why is because when I began to build the community and bring people together in person, it's a very different conversation in the room when it is just women...
Evelyn Ackah:
Yes.
Davina Frederick:
On a law firm business, than when it is men and women who own a law firm business. Or when it's women lawyers in general, who work for other people and women law firm owners, we have different problems, right? So I really dialed in and became very specific. I work with women law firm owners who want to scale their law firm businesses to and through a million dollars, in gross annual revenue. So it's really dialed in.
Evelyn Ackah:
I love it. I love how dialed in it is, and I love... I've worked with you professionally, and I know your material is fabulous. And the commitment you have to your clients is very, very deep. And I think you have very strong conversations because we're all balancing whether it's dogs or children or extracurriculars or community work and running a business and being an employer. And one thing is, law school does not teach lawyers, as you know, how to market, how to be a business owner, how to think about accounting and finance and all of those issues. And I can see where women would love to be able to connect on that level with somebody who's done it, right? There are a lot of people out there as you know who say, "I'm a coach, I'm a coach, I'm a professional. I know what I'm doing. I'm going to help you scale," but they've never done it.
Evelyn Ackah:
And I think the value that you bring, Davina, is you've done it. You know the pressures, the joys and the fears. And I think being able to target and focus on marketing and helping women with their branding, all those things you do that reflect on the bottom line, and get them to those seven figures or beyond is a huge asset. So give me a sample of when you work with a professional law firm owner, a woman, one-on-one, what does that look like once they buy your package and they commit to your programming? What does the day-to-day, the weekly, the monthly, but what does that look like in terms of their support level from you?
Davina Frederick:
Right, that's a great question. And there are a couple of different ways that women law firm owners can work with me. So I began my business as most coaches do, working one-on-one because you're developing those relationships, and connections and those skills. And you learn a lot about your client when you're working one-on-one. I still offer one-on-one services, and the reason I do... My own coaches have told me that I probably should not do as much of that. But the reason I do is because I still love the one-on-one work with women, and actually seeing the changes they go through personally. And how they come out on the other side, a different person and a happier person in their life. I also have created a program though, that is a course with a group component.
Davina Frederick:
And so it's a group mastermind with other women lawyers. And I have another coach in there who helps me to manage and maintain that group and support those clients. And the reason I did that, and there's a big price point difference. Obviously, if you're getting access to me, we're spending a lot of time at the beginning upfront, developing a strategic plan for you to grow your business. And we're going to get really dialed into that plan, on what your specific goals are, and then prioritizing those goals and developing strategies. Because some people are going to come to me, most of the people who are at my private client level have already gotten some marketing system in place where they're getting clients with some regularity. So, that is not the place we usually wind up starting, although there may be some fine-tuning there. But we dig into what it would be like to have a systems-driven law for a business and a team to help you run it.
Davina Frederick:
To pull you out of working in your business and shift you to work thinking like a CEO, instead of just thinking like a lawyer and focused on working on your business. And so we meet consistently on an ongoing basis throughout the engagement, which is usually at least a year. And I have many that renew and we continue to go because as they scale, they're developing new problems and, we're wanting to continue growing. And then in the group situation, those people are also making progress. We're meeting frequently, we're meeting weekly in that group right now. And everyone has the course with my actual framework that I use to teach my one-on-one clients. They just don't have the direct one-on-one access to me, the way that my one-on-one clients do. So we're really focused. We're really focused on helping our clients make the changes that they need to make, both internally and externally, to be able to own and operate a multi-seven-figure law firm business, without working themselves to death in the process.
Evelyn Ackah:
And health, right. Health as well. And if you don't have it, you don't have anything. So there has to be that balance, and I speak for myself. I know the importance of finding that at the best you can, exercising, eating well, all those things. But let's talk a little bit, Davina, about legal marketing. Having worked in a law firm culture, and being a lawyer and running a business. What did you learn about marketing or what did you see was lacking in the marketing that most lawyers do? Because I know your business also provides some marketing, legal marketing support in addition to the coaching and the strategy work that you do.
Davina Frederick:
Well, I will tell you first of all, that I have... I'm actually going to show it here because I haven't had it sitting here... Which I keep on my desk. I didn't just spring it out for the podcast. Believe it or not. I wrote a book on marketing.
Evelyn Ackah:
Awesome, I've got to get that one.
Davina Frederick:
So it's called the Wealthy Woman Lawyer's Guide To Law Firm Marketing In The Virtual Age. And it's 10 bold actions that you can take now to attract your ideal client with total ease. And if people want to get a free copy of this book, you can get a free copy of it by going to wealthywomanlawyer.com/book/. So wealthywomanlawyer.com, and I'm sure I'll give you that link.
Evelyn Ackah:
Okay, perfect.
Davina Frederick:
You get a free PDF copy of the book, or you can go to Amazon or Barnes and Noble and buy a copy. But because I have so much to say about marketing, it had to have its own book. I'm working on my second book right now, which is about creating a systems-driven law firm business. But marketing needs its own system, It is one of the seven foundational systems that I talk to my clients about.
Davina Frederick:
And initially, when we start out with marketing, it's important... What I advise my clients, if they're just starting out is to really maximize the organic opportunities. When I started my law firm business back in 2007, Facebook was just an infant and Instagram hadn't even been born yet. And so the tools that we have now to market our business are so... It's just amazing to me. I absolutely love what social media can do to help a small business owner grow their business. But we can quickly get caught up into thinking we have to do it all ourselves. We have to be the ones to go post on social media every day and create the means to do all of that stuff. And if you are just starting out in your law firm and you've got more time than clients and money coming in, that may be what you choose to do, especially if that's a hobby that you love or whatever.
Davina Frederick:
But very quickly, you're going to realize that this is a place that you're going to need team support. Because marketing is its own career and it's become more complex because there're all these different avenues now that we can choose. So what I talk about in my book is helping. I give people key considerations for each different sort of online marketing tool, not just social media, but email or your website. I give you information that helps you decide what the best marketing platforms are for you and what you need to be doing. And the key thing is you want to know who your ideal client is and where they hang out.
Evelyn Ackah:
Yes, you need to know your avatar, right?
Davina Frederick:
Right. If You don't know who that ideal client is, and you don't know where they hang out, you're over there dancing on TikTok, thinking that you're going to get some, whatever client, right? And you may or may not just because it has worked for another attorney in their practice does not mean it will work for you because we don't need to get into a loop of chasing new platforms. What we need to do is figure out, "where are our clients, where are they hanging out?" And to get in front of them there. And Evelyn, I just want to throw it, by now I'm just going on and on. But I want to throw one thing. With this situation that just happened with Facebook and Instagram as we're recording this, they just... Poor Zuckerberg was having a horrible mercury retrograde because Facebook and Instagram and WhatsApp all were down for six hours, I think.
Davina Frederick:
And if that didn't show you that you definitely need to have a plan for marketing and communicating with your clients besides organic social media or ads on social media, then I don't know what will. I mean, email is still a very powerful generator of business. Google ads are still a very powerful generator of business. There are a lot of tools out there that we can use to automate and get a team to help us get those leads coming in on autopilot. But if you love social media, that can also be a big part of your mix too.
Evelyn Ackah:
Yeah. I think you're totally right. I mean, it was a shocker to everybody. Obviously, at Ackah Business Immigration Law, we do Google ads, we do PPC and we do the Gamut, and we do email. We love our MailChimp campaigns and we do the emails to targeted different groups of people. But it's shocking, how people were so like devastated by Facebook going down. And I barely noticed because I was working, right. And so I think unless you rely on it or you're on it all day, every day, you didn't even notice that it wasn't there. But I'm sure that people that use it as the primary source of marketing were devastated. I know lawyer friends of mine, especially immigration lawyers in the States who dance every day on TikTok. I don't do it because that's not my...
Davina Frederick:
Nobody wants to see me dance, that's the problem.
Evelyn Ackah:
Much less. Nobody wants to see me pointing here and there. And I tried it a couple of times and it just didn't feel right for me. But also it wasn't thinking about who my avatar was. So what you said is absolutely right. Most of our clients are corporations, corporate professionals, executive, they're not asylum-seeking. They're not people that are illegal. They're not people that are uneducated. It's a different market, or they're not young, young, young people. And I know that people will say, "well, every market can use it." Maybe that's true, but it has to feel right. And one thing I think I really like about your coaching and your marketing expertise has been, you need to be authentic, and you need to find something that works for you. Because it may not work for everybody, right?
Davina Frederick:
Exactly. And also for your clients, because like you said, if the majority of your clients are men between the ages of 50 and 70, and they're running businesses. They might be on LinkedIn or have somebody there on LinkedIn, right. And they're probably not going to be on TikTok or Instagram, with the few exceptions. The other thing I want to just not forget to mention is, I think a lot of attorneys, especially when they're starting out and they're growing their law firm business in those first few years. They get a lot of fear around marketing their business because of their ethical obligations and rules. And that we definitely have to pay attention to. And in Florida, the bar, there's all kinds of opinions and rules, believe it or not. I know everybody thinks it's just wild and crazy down here, but we do have a lot of rules.
Davina Frederick:
And there, the Young Lawyer's Association just put out a pocket guide to social media. So if you haven't gotten that, grab that, but don't let the fear of violating a rule, keep you from marketing your business. Because truthfully, there's a lot of room for opportunity in how you market your business. The objective of the bar association is to protect consumers from lawyers who are doing something that is underhanded or slimy or whatever. The objective is to protect them from these types of lawyers and that's not you. And if it's not you, and they have all sort... They have an ethics hotline, and I'm sure it's the same in other jurisdictions, you have an ethics hotline, you have rules. Read them, you're an attorney, you can read and interpret rules. So don't let that stop you from marketing your business because you're scared you're going to [inaudible 00:19:54] violation, just ask.
Evelyn Ackah:
Yeah, totally. I think that's totally good advice. And I would say in Canada, things are even tighter. So we learn how to use social media in a way that is not offside. That's very, very important. I know that you also have a Facebook group, you have a podcast, you've written books. How have you found the Facebook group or page building out helpful? Because as you know, I'm learning from you and other friends of ours. Regina, Irene and others who've got these wonderful pages that just give so much value, and just free and sharing and generous. How has that creation of your website or your Facebook page built out helped you grow your business? Because that's a new strategy too.
Davina Frederick:
Well, Facebook pages don't really get a lot of traffic unless you're like a really big business and you're a big advertiser, I guess. There are rules set up as to what you can promote, and this is where we run up against bar rules too, about what you can promote on your personal page and what you can't promote. So if you're promoting your business on your personal page, you need to be very careful because there likely are rules around that. Because you are communicating with people who did not ask to be there and see your stuff, right? Whereas if you have a page, then people know very clearly this is a business page and I'm signing up for that. One of the things that Regina has done, that I have done and others have done is, we create groups.
Davina Frederick:
And so if you join a group, then you're in a community and you have asked to be there and participate in the community and you've been approved to be a part of the community. And that is where those conversations can go on about, like you mentioned, those resources. And so the strategy, I think it raises an interesting dilemma among attorneys because attorneys think to themselves, "well, how can I maximize this? Can I create a group like this? What kind of group could I create? How do I gather together people? Does that become a problem with attorney-client," blurring those lines between attorney-client. So it can be a little trickier for attorneys than it can for people who are marketing to attorneys. Which is what attorney coaches do, right?
Evelyn Ackah:
Yeah.
Davina Frederick:
But I also will say, about one of the things... You also have to be very careful about when you are in groups and you are giving advice. I see this all the time. I'm in a copywriter group that I've been in for many, many years. And I'm tagged sometimes by my friends, in the copywriter group asking what's my opinion is as an attorney. And I'm like, "don't tag me. That's what my opinion is." Because you're not in my jurisdiction, I don't want to overstep my boundaries. But you certainly can create relationships with people. And I know some of my clients, I've got one client who's been very successful by starting an attorney group. It's a group of moms, attorney moms and her jurisdiction. And she has gotten a lot of referrals from that. So there is a way to do it, you just have to, like I said, I just refer people back to, "make sure you read and understand your rules when you're doing anything on social media."
Davina Frederick:
Now, for me, it has been a place, over the years where I have loved Facebook. I'm a writer, I like to write. I'm a writer by profession so I love to talk and engage with people in conversation. And so for me, it was a natural thing to go and engage in conversation with people and offer opinions of my thoughts about problems they're having. And then, invite people to work with me if that's what they want to do. And sometimes I'm not as direct as others. I just put it out there and I let my clients do the talking for me. And my work speaks for itself in that way. And I use a tool like email to speak more directly to people and I also use advertising and things. So I think you can use in concert with other types of tools.
Evelyn Ackah:
Okay. This is great, Davina. I mean, one thing I really love about building a business is you have to look at how much you're spending on marketing. So, I mean, some people are like, "oh, don't spend any money on PPC," this and that, you hear these crazy. And then other people say, spend 30% of your revenue on this, which is also crazy. How do you advise your clients on how much they should be thinking about contributing financially to marketing? Say on a monthly basis, to get the impact that they want. Is it not always a one-to-one or a hundred to one, or it's not always a direct correlation, is it
Davina Frederick:
Right. Now and here's the thing. That it's a hard question to answer because it depends on the size of your law firm. It depends on your goals, it depends on your region, it depends on who your clients are. So all of that. I don't want to name a specific number. As a general rule, I tend to say, 10-15% and 20. I'm a max person, so I'm the person who pushes the envelope of what I invest in marketing because I'm wanting to have a greater impact. I want to serve as many women law firm owners as possible, which is why I've created such a wide variety of content from free content to really low costs, like my book to my group, on up, right? So I'm looking at that scale of people because I want to create a greater impact. So I'm going to invest a lot in growing that audience. It all really depends. So, "is the attorney answered?" The attorney in me, "it depends, Evelyn. It depends."
Evelyn Ackah:
I get it. Because if you do all this marketing and you don't have the production, then I've heard, Laura's like, "oh my God, I can't even find people because we're so busy, because we did this big increase." So you're right. It's incremental, I think it's testing it. And doing a little more and seeing what you get and getting to that place where plateaus...
Davina Frederick:
Yeah. Throw into it. When you first started your business, you didn't jump right out and start advertising everywhere. You grew it to because when you're trying to transform your business, you're also transforming yourself into someone who can manage a business of that sort...
Evelyn Ackah:
Amen.
Davina Frederick:
...Knew from day one, the keys to a $5 million, $10 million revenue-generating business, you'd be like, "oh my God, no," because we wouldn't know what to do, right? You have to become the person. So it's the same thing with your marketing, start where you are. And the key thing is visibility and really making yourself visible to other people who might need your services.
Evelyn Ackah:
I think what's so great about what you just said there, I have to just listen and say it again, is that you can transform your business, but you must transform yourself too. And I think that is the journey. It's like, the hero's journey. It's the sense of, "you're on a mission and you're on a journey in life." And I think to be a businesswoman and a business owner and a lawyer, you need to be seeking constant transformation and growth in order to have the mindset. Because I think mindset is a big part of it too. And most people don't recognize that as your mind develops and grows, so is your business, develops and grows, right? Wow.
Davina Frederick:
Because you've expanded your capacity for it, right. If we don't have the capacity for, well... That we don't have the capacity for success at a certain level, we wouldn't know what to do with it. That's why you see people who win the lottery and they go for working a job that is a job from paycheck to paycheck, and they win a lottery and they blow through it so quickly. Because as human beings they just haven't done the internal work. They didn't have the luxury of it most likely, of doing a self-actualization work. Maslow's hierarchy of needs. They haven't been able to self-actualize and so that really is when you're growing your law firm business. It really is about you becoming that, just like it is about you becoming a master litigator, right. You want to become the top of your field. That's not something you snap your fingers. You may have some raw talent there, but it's trying cases and being in a courtroom for years and years and years, that makes you the master that was running your business.
Evelyn Ackah:
Oh, I love that. I love that so much. Well, listen, as we're starting to wrap up, I just wanted to ask you about who for you... Yes, we know you work with women lawyers and law firm owners, but is there a certain ideal type of woman law firm owner? Because there are a lot of us out there, but not all of them you would probably want as your avatar, right? What is their mindset or what is their seeking that allows you to have a really good connection with the potential new client?
Davina Frederick:
I'm going to tell you the number one characteristic is somebody who is open-minded to what's possible, that they may not even have considered. And so what I mean by that is if you have a very fixed mindset and usually that's born out of fear.
Evelyn Ackah:
Yes.
Davina Frederick:
But we've been taught to think a certain way by our family of origin or by life experiences or whatever. And so we may have a lot of fear around taking risks and trying to really reach for that brass ring. So that kind of mindset is not something that I am going to respond well to. It's not that I don't care about people as human beings and I don't have compassion for it, but just in how I am as a coach and how my programs are. I'm looking for people who know enough to know that they probably don't know and that's... And they're open to the idea that they see all around them, all the people that they're looking at and they're admiring, and they're saying, "I want to be like her, I want to be like her."
Davina Frederick:
And they can't figure out how to make that happen, how is that possible? But they know that if they just know the secret or the magic or whatever, that they will be able to do it too. Those are the people that I'd like to talk with. And the reason why is because it's not magic. There is no magic pill or secret, but I know that if you are open-minded and you are willing to listen to another perspective and examine and explore other possibilities, you're going to get. There's nothing in the world that's going to stop you from getting what you want...
Evelyn Ackah:
Exactly.
Davina Frederick:
...if you have that kind of attitude. So it's really attitude more than anything. And there's a place for it in working with me. If you don't feel I can afford... If you have mindset issues around I can afford this level. There are places to work with me. And so I have some people who've followed me for years and enjoy my free content. And then one day they raised their hand and they say, "I'm ready."
Evelyn Ackah:
Yeah.
Davina Frederick:
And then I have others, who've come into the leap program and they do that for a while, and they say, "okay, I'm ready, I now I want to work with you one-on-one." So it's not about what you think you or what you can afford and not afford. It's really about the ability to just be open to exploring what's possible because that's what's worked for me.
Evelyn Ackah:
Yeah. No, I think that's a perfect description of what works best. And I think the other piece is implementing and execution, right? The value of working with a professional growth coach and consultant like yourself, and is not just financial growth, but mental growth, personal growth. I love that. That's how you describe yourself, you're not just, "I'm a law firm coach or a law firm consultant." It's about growth, and I think when you lead with that, people who are looking for growth connect to that, right.
Davina Frederick:
We all have it in us.
Evelyn Ackah:
Yeah.
Davina Frederick:
We all have it in us. I'm not some guru who's going to share something down from the mouth, that's a brilliant thing. It's really about being a support, and a guided support, right. To help you to... In your unfolding and in your discovery of your own skills and abilities. And yeah, I do function as a consultant as well. I mean, when you know things, you don't hold that back for people, right. But it also is about people. I don't dictate to people what their law firm business needs to look like. You don't need to have a law office with your name on the door and a hundred people working for you. You can have a virtual firm and everybody's remote.
Evelyn Ackah:
Exactly.
Davina Frederick:
I don't have a dog in that fight. That's all about what you want, right. And so I just think it's important to say, "Hey, I know I have this dream of being able to take the month of August off and leave my business, and it works like a machine." If that's your dream, that is possible. And you just need to trust that that is possible, and then we can have a conversation about how you can go get it.
Evelyn Ackah:
It is certainly possible. I did it this summer and it was a great, great time and everything ran well. And obviously working with you and some of the other professionals I've worked with, I think as law firm owners, we're always looking for resources to do better and to improve, and to learn and different minds and people give you different insights.
So I want to thank you so much, Davina Frederick, for joining us. And for sharing your knowledge and sharing your expertise and talking about Wealthy Woman Lawyer. And I'm hoping that people will reach out, that are intrigued by our discussion, will reach out to find you at Wealthy Woman Lawyer. And also we'll be having all your links, as well to the book that I'm going to buy shortly after this when this podcast goes live. But I'm so grateful. Thank you so much.
Davina Frederick:
Thank you, Evelyn. It's been my pleasure. I always enjoy having conversations with you so thanks so much for inviting me.
Evelyn Ackah:
You're welcome. And you're welcome up to Canada anytime, once you can get over the border.
Davina Frederick:
Exactly.
