Episode 87: Cross-Border Tax and Financial Strategies for Canadians and Americans with Oscar Sy

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Hi everyone, welcome to the Ask Canada Immigration Lawyer Podcast. I'm Evelyn Ackah and I have the pleasure today of having on our podcast my friend and colleague Mr. Oscar Sy. Hi Oscar.

Hi Evelyn, thanks for having me today. Thanks for joining. I wanted to let the audience know a little bit about you Oscar.

So Oscar, like myself, is a lifelong Vancouverite and he's a founding partner at Numis CPA Inc and he focuses on helping families and businesses manage their finances and taxes. With more than 20 years of experience, he brings this to our clients who do cross-border immigration as well and he strives to provide solutions for each client situation that are practical and that educate the client. So I'd love to welcome you and love to hear some about you Oscar.

How's life? Oh awesome, thanks for the warm introduction. It always sounds a lot more epic when you say it. I feel like I'm just Evelyn's friend here on her podcast.

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You're so funny. No, no, you're my friend the other way around. Oscar's my friend.

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Everybody needs a good accountant and tax specialist. Oh yeah, I mean you know my team and I were always happy to help. Life's been good here.

Life's been good. The kids are growing. God, this is why we work.

We can pay for these children we have, right? Well, don't you know it? Oh absolutely. This whole Uber Eats movement thing is... Oh my god. So tell me Oscar, let's talk about your career.

Like as you and I are both Vancouverites, but how did you start and what did you do in school and all that? Give us a little bio on you. Oh yeah, absolutely. So I grew up in Steveston and it's been, you know, a great place to grow up.

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When we grew up, it was, you know, the good old days before cell phones and before all the technology connected us all the time. If I fast forward a little bit, I went to Langara for school. My mom went there too.

She did her nursing program through there, so I thought it'd be interesting enough to go. When I went, the faculty was amazing and that's probably what drew me most, particularly Peter Norwood was the accounting guy. As a Filipino-Canadian, I was designated to be an engineer or a nurse, you know? Those were your choices.

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It just kind of worked out that in college, I ended up taking the financial management program at Langara and I found... I guess back then, I would try to force things. Like if I was supposed to be a nurse, I would make that happen. But certain roadblocks would kind of come up and make it difficult.

In my journey through the financial accounting world, everything just kind of happened. So, you know, I stopped trying to push that round peg through the square hole and just kind of went with the flow. Had some great instructors and if I fast forward a little bit, had the right ones that motivated me.

Let's use that word. Motivated me to apply at Ernst & Young. It was actually over a wager.

So that's how we met each other in the EMY world, right? That's yes. Yeah, absolutely. And it doesn't seem that long ago.

I mean, it was just, you know, a blink of an eye. It feels like yesterday. It was long ago.

It was long ago. No, absolutely. And yeah, so I mean, from Ernst & Young, I got my foot in the door, worked with a great team and met a lot of great people.

Learned my skill set there. And, you know, got to network and, you know, learn what it was like to work at the big four. So knock on wood, I was lucky enough to learn my work ethic there.

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And single enough to do it. Like a long term partner. But she saw me from the beginning to the end, so she knew what she was getting in for.

Taxiing, you disappear for months, right? You go to that cave and... Yeah, exactly. Audit period comes and that's it. So you made your way through ENY and other kind of accounting firms.

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So what led you to the place where, much like me, you decided to start your own shop? What was driving that and what was inspiring about that for you? You know, that's a great question. And it's an easy answer. I got the ultimatum.

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So the ultimatum came from my real boss, you know, the wife. Yes. Way prettier than work could ever be.

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Yeah. It was an easy answer. She's like, are you married to me? You're married to work type thing.

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And, you know, the catalyst for that event was her dad passed away. Yes. And he was down in Texas.

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So that was, you know, where he lived. He was an oil engineer, engineer for like oil and gas. So he would go where the work was.

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He was in Texas. Yeah. She flies down for her birthday week.

And then that was like, say, the Tuesday. He got sick on the Wednesday, hospital on the Friday and Monday checked out proverbially. Gone.

It was quick. And that's in March. It's during tax season.

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So I could not get bereavement leave from my unit at the Vancouver office. So, you know, long and short, I had a senior manager that said, you need to stay married. You just got married in August.

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Yeah. So he flew me down on his points and came back. Right.

I finished my season and, you know, me and the wife made that decision to venture off. We didn't actually think it through. We didn't know what we're going to do after.

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It's kind of did it. And then after flying different places, clients started to call. And that's how the practice started.

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That's so great. So you and your partners established NUMA CPA's Inc. And so how do you differentiate yourself from other accounting and tax firms, especially, you know, smaller regional firms? You know, I feel like you're getting these questions from the guy that writes the hot wings questions.

These are awesome questions. How do we differentiate ourselves? I guess the well, there's a couple different ones from what clients have told me. One of our competitive advantages is we answer the phone.

Yes, you do call. I know it's designated, like dedicated to make sure that happens. Yeah.

So if you reach out and we strive to make sure we can get back to in a reasonable timeframe. Yeah. The other things that differentiate us is we take, I guess we can do everything the big four does.

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We recently became the Vancouver chapter for Russell Bedford. So they're number 17 on the Global Accounting Network's ranking. We're four of the big four based on revenue.

So it helps us punch above our weight class in case clients need reviews or audits or just referrals to other jurisdictions. The other thing that differentiates us would be our cross-border capabilities. So we're one of the few firms out there that can file U.S. and Canadian returns.

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We can e-file returns from both sides of the border and we can do corporate, individual, trust, whatever you need. We're happy to do so. We can also do the reviews and audits, which is the same as any other CPA firm.

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What makes us different is, well, I like to think we're goal-orientated for the clients. Yeah. Like reporting is one thing, but the clients may have different goals.

So a common example would be a client telling us they've got a big purchase coming up in the next couple of years. They want to look good for the banks so they can get A-tier financing. Yeah.

Okay. Let's take a look at your financials and look at it through that lens. And that lens may look different if it's a year we're like, hey, Oscar, we don't have anything going on.

We want pure tax austerity. Let's optimize this to the max. That might look a little different.

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So in finding out what the client's goals are, we can come up with a game plan and help prepare the filings accordingly. Yeah. No, that's great.

I mean, I know from our firm perspective we refer work to you because we know that you're responsive. We know that you'll tell the clients whether you can or cannot help them. A lot of times with immigration, you're strategizing.

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I always say tax and accounting has to be first. So they go talk to you and then they come back when they're ready. How did you get into this process of growth? Because I know from talking with you and one of your other partners, you've been growing, growing, growing.

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So what is motivating that sense of not just being a small Vancouver firm or Kelowna or wherever Calgary, but now it's like you're really looking at partnering and buying and acquiring other accounting firms? Yeah. Another great question. I guess where to begin? I guess we started at the beginning when me, Andrew and Jack formed NUMA CPAs.

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We basically just kind of brought our practices together and took all the best practices from all the different aspects because we had kind of different focuses. So together, it's been great because the synergies work. Andrew's amazing at keeping our operations together.

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Jack with a fractional CFO work brings a whole different set of bench strength to the team. And it allows me to focus on client relationships, strategy and the acquisitions. So making sure that the clients through the acquisitions are feeling supported.

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The worst thing they can do is like, I heard you guys are switching, but I haven't heard from anybody. Oh my God. I mean, even just a 15 minute phone call goes a long way.

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I mean, if you're in all the better, but it does take some time to meet all of them. So having that team and working with what it allows us to do, what we do best kind of empowers us to continue down this path. That's great.

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Continue down that path, like the staff and t eam we've put together, they need room for growth and so do the partners. So once we kind of fleshed out our basic systems and they're very modular. So if someone gets sick in our Calgary office, someone from our Cobble Hill office or West Kelowna can help pick up the slack and get the file done.

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Also for the partners, they can be anywhere in the world. Like we were just down in Rio for a conference. Jack was very much doing meetings and reviewing files.

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I was networking. Of course you were. Oh my God.

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That's how it is. So once you have the system set up, now we just need to scale up. So that's why we've been doing the acquisitions.

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So we've purchased like four accounting firms in the last 12 months. Wow. And another one closing end of this year.

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And we're definitely looking for more. That's so incredible. It's a way to grow.

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So what's your vision for Numis? Are you going to be an E&Y? What is the plan? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I like the, it's funny.

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A side and side? Work life balance. Yeah. That's a really good question.

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I think right now, like the goal for like the immediate partners is we're going to continue our strategy of buying the real estate, surrounding the offices and continue to like raise the kids. Like between the three of us, we've got, I think it's 11 kids under 14. Come December 10, under 15, they'll grow like each year.

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Wow. So we're going to be working for the next little while for sure. I think the idea is continue to grow the firm to, you know, like kind of mid tier levels.

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Yeah. You know, rock that. And we kind of see from there.

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I don't think I would ever retire. Yeah. You know, life's pretty good.

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It doesn't feel like work per se. It's just, you know, my day. That's when you really love it.

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That's really, really love it. Well, you get to work with fun people, right? Yeah. I think that's important too.

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You know, you're energetic and you all love what you're doing. It makes a big, big difference. How big is your team? I know you probably staff up for tax season, but generally what kind of numbers? We're looking to maintain and like keep the core team.

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And during tax season, we've been leveraging the co-op. Yeah. So we've got four partners.

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There's three of us, the founding partners and our new wave of salary partners. Which is exciting. You know, we are hoping to fill those ranks to kind of take over the day-to-day per se to free us up for more of the development aspect of things.

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But it's exciting. There's a lot of talent that we've been knock on wood, able to attract. Good.

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In the firm and the culture that's developed. Yeah. It's fun working.

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That's so good. That's so good. That makes all the difference for sure.

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So let's talk about cross border. Like when I have a client that is coming from the States and they want to talk to you because they are incorporating a related entity. So a lot of the times that's kind of how initially I'll say you got to talk to Oscar and his team to figure out what's the best structure.

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How do you advise a company based on what their plans are? Yeah. I guess, first of all, we'll book a complimentary referral from you. Complimentary introductory call.

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Talk to them and find out what the overall goals are and what their situation is. From there, I can either just give them the prescription. Like, hey, here are the filings you're going to need.

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Here's a rough quote. Yeah. Or what that would look like.

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Or it's, hey, you know what? We should probably dig into more detail and book a paid tax consultation. For sure, yeah. Kind of review your files, your situation and really dig into the specifics.

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Yeah. And then from there, it could lead to different aspects based on what the client's needs are. But again, we will do what the client's looking for and kind of provide our advisory around that.

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We're not here to tell them, no, you can't do that. Yeah, no. You guys are always very helpful.

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I think usually what happens is they'll get some guidance on how they want to structure the deal or their new company in Canada. Is it going to be a branch, a subsidiary? You talk to them about taxes, provincial and federal and all of that and also personal tax. And then they come back and then we do the intercompany work permit and they come in.

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So then when they're here, we also tell them they need support from you for like payroll. They need people to help them figure out how to plan for GST and all of that. So do you offer that service as well? All, let's say the business needs fractional CFO or needs bookkeeping slash accounting strategy.

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Do you do that? Yeah, it's been a mainstay, which is kind of interesting because when we first started, we wanted to stay away from the bookkeeping but it would always come up. So we found that it was better just to flush it out. And then we came across a couple of key team members on our bookkeeping team and they've been phenomenal.

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So now they lead a team of bookkeepers and we very much do offer it. It covers everything that they need on like a hourly bookkeeping rate. There's also packages that they want but they'll take care of the payroll.

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If they need WCB reports done, they'll do that as well. All the PST, GST reports, returns. They'll do the day-to-day if you want as well.

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Like they just pull the bank accounts, credit card statements, take care of all the legwork for you depending on how much or how little they want done. Yeah, oh, that's so great. It's so important, I think, because when you start you don't always know what you need.

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And so having that support to make sure you don't get, you find out after a year of practicing or operating, oh my God, look at this crazy tax bill and there's been no planning around it. So that's what I'm trying to hold, to avoid for my clients is start- Well, for sure, especially when they set revenue, right? Because like you said, a lot of times clients won't factor it in. Yeah.

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That's when it's painful. Oh, yeah. And also how they want to get paid because for immigration, for the most part, they have to be on payroll.

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You leave for that maybe 12 months or more because they were looking for permanent residents. And so if they're like, I'm just going to take a draw, that does not help them when it comes to immigration. So I think working in partnership with a really good accountant like yourself and good team of people that can help them makes it better.

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So at the end of that 12 months, we're not having a shock and awe that something went wrong. Yeah, like we're all on the same page. And that's what, you know, it's really great working with you and your team because the communication flows really easily.

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Yeah. Really easily for our guys to get the right information so that they can make the right determinations. Absolutely.

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So let's talk about the other side. So Canadian businesses going to the States, which is still happening, you know, regardless of what's happening in the States, there's a huge market and, you know, people want to be there to grow their businesses. So how do you help people on that side of the border, on the U.S. side? Do you have U.S. tax people? We do, and we're looking to expand down into the U.S. So we're looking at new U.S. firms to acquire as well.

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Yeah. I've been hinting at the other partners, maybe somewhere warm or warmer. Of course, it has to be warm.

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Than our other offices in Florida or Nevada. Yeah, that would be excellent. And we do have partners down there.

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So those partners are waiting to jump aboard as soon as we make these acquisitions happen. Okay. But on the U.S. side, so these guys are Canadian companies working down there.

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We'll usually do a consult with them because a lot of the times they may or may not need the U.S. filing, right? Like if there's no permanent establishment or depending on their situation, they may not have that need. And if they don't and are still worried about it, they can file a protective return. And we do that for them from this side of the border.

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It doesn't matter where management is. We can take care of their file as long as they have an internet connection. Yes.

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Oh my goodness. That is fabulous. Okay.

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So that's what I really like is that we can say, go see them. They can do their thing. Tell me about your startup.

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You mentioned that you used to startups getting their businesses off the ground. With immigration, there's the startup visa program and all that. But how do you get into that? How do you tailor your services for them? Yeah.

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I guess it's your education, right? So during that consultation, we'll talk through like what their expectations are, what the budgets are. So we can try to keep things realistic. Yeah.

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Not so different as a realtor's job these days. That's a tough gig. Trying to break down to someone like your $4 million buys you a teardown.

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Oh my God. That's why I don't live in Vancouver. I love the housing and all the new subdivisions coming up in Calgary.

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Yeah. You see them? They're everywhere. I do.

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Every time I fly in, like that gap between Airdrie and Calgary. They're everywhere. Smaller and smaller.

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Yeah. I love the neighborhoods because you guys are building schools. A good neighborhood and green spaces.

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Yeah. It's important. Yeah.

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So at least the kids can be kids. They can run around and bike in their areas and whatnot. We used to do.

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Absolutely. Anyway, I digress. But how do you support startups? You syd education because a lot of times they're new entrepreneurs.

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They don't really know what they don't know yet. And how do you give them that kind of support? Especially like when you're new, you have to go to the bank. You got to figure out how that all works if you're maybe a younger person.

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Yeah, absolutely. Well, we do our best to keep it simple. So once we find out what they're looking for and what the parameters are, then we can send them to one of our partners, right? We can send them to, maybe you guys get incorporation done.

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If that's the way to go. Or if they're going to be a sole prop, maybe run a sole prop until they hit a critical mass or depending on what their situation is. And then we'll talk them through the bank accounts and getting set up.

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A lot of the times, they'll just have us set it up for them. So we can open up the GST accounts, get the CRA accounts going. We would get access as our authorized rep.

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So we can answer a lot of the questions they have on the day-to-day. And most importantly, allow them to focus on generating revenue. As long as they're generating enough revenue, there's usually not any problems.

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Problems arise when the revenue dries up. Yeah, for sure. And understanding that whole cashflow, which is never ending when you're running a business, understanding how it works.

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And so do you do like us flat fee? Do you set up plans for your clients based on what their needs are? Or is most of the work and support they get from you hourly? It'll depend. So based on what they need, like for some of our clients, they just need a couple hours of our time. So we'll just take care of that hourly.

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For other ones for like returns and forms, we do have standard rates. Yeah. For startups, if they can make our job easier and reduce the amount of time on it, we're happy to pass that discount on.

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And we do have payment plans. Okay. So for a lot of our guys, it's just managing cashflow.

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Like they can't take this big hit, paying my tax bill. You know, can I just, I'm using you, can I just pay you monthly? You know, like, hey, you know. Yeah, that's good.

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So you've got flexibility in there and make it work for the client, whatever they need. Excellent. Excellent.

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And then later on they're baller, you know, they're like, I'll just pay you in full now. Yeah. Cause they're growing.

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I mean, it must be so satisfying to see clients that started with you or early days grow and be successful, you know, and remain happy clients of the business. Well, absolutely. Absolutely.

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And the bottles every year get nicer and nicer. So it's great. You know, you're doing something right.

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Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You got to get to know your clients.

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That's so great. Well, it sounds like, I like working with you guys because I know that you guys have the same kind of philosophy of client first and really that service. I always say we come from big firms, you and I both, and we bring that same quality in a smaller package where it's more personal, you know, and accessible and responsive.

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Those are really important. I think we've got good teams around us, right? Yeah. Yeah.

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It's critical. It's critical. The team makes it all happen.

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Are there any issues right now in tax and accounting that you see down the pipeline that might be something for people to kind of look out for? I mean, it feels like our taxes keep going up, but you know, that's kind of, we get things, you know, we get good things from the taxes we pay, but, you know, is there anything you can think of that you want to share as we get into another year starting up already? Yeah, you know, most years we probably have a lot of things to like, you know, wake people up to, but it feels like right now with like the state of the economy and things where things are politically. Yeah. I think everyone's already like watching things like a hawk.

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Yeah, I think so too. Especially with like what happened down south and within the next year and a bit, like we're due for ours. Yes, we're going to see, there'll be lots of changes, I think.

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I'm with you on that. There may be some tax changes down the line or. And the immigration side, they go hand in hand.

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Yeah, they do. They really do. And that's why, like for me, I'm always telling clients if they're here, do you really want to get their status, figure out your permanent residence, get your citizenship if that's what you want, because you just never know.

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The laws keep changing. Yes. It's affecting people's lives.

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So, you know, I think what you do is so important because sometimes I hear from clients, can't find anybody even to do their U.S. personal tax, like, you know, unless it's like some big, big shop. And a lot of times they're getting out of that business as well. So it's great that you also provide that support.

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Yeah. A lot of the bigger firms, just it's hard to find talent in the industry right now. Yeah.

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Everyone across the country, across industries is fine. So they have to keep to their profit lines per se. So unfortunately, that means pricing out the individuals, right? And they're probably the ones that need it more.

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Everyone needs it. But the mom and pop shops, it's helping them, right? It's much harder for them. So no, I think what you're doing is fabulous.

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And I'm excited to see the growth and the continued growth. And, you know, is there anything else you want to share about Numis and kind of where you're going with it and your ideal clients? Do you have an ideal client, Oscar? Ideal client? Nice people. I'm just happy to help nice people.

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Nice people. Yeah. If we can take them a long way, you know, as long as they've got the goals and kind of know what vision, we're happy to provide that advisory.

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We're not their only finance guy. And for most, like all of our successful guys all have a team. Yes.

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We play that, not like the whole role, but a major part of that team. But if we're not interfaced with the rest of the finance team, you know, you get a mismatch of advice. Contrary filings, et cetera.

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So, yeah, if I could put that out there. Yeah. You know, you want a finance team, right? And there's always a handful of lawyers behind each one of those.

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It's true. Finance teams, right? Especially in today's market, the U.S. is huge. You know, the revenue you can get from there.

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And I've seen more people tell a remote in from Canada. Yes. Yes.

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Telework is huge. And it's like the proverbial home run. You're earning U.S. dollars, spending it in Canada.

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Canada. Yeah. Although inflation and all the increased cost of living eat it up.

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But, you know, compared to working. It's a big difference. It does.

Yeah. It definitely does. So we're happy to help with all of that.

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The other thing that would be, we are looking to put out a new wave of social media videos with three kind of audiences in mind. OK. So we'll let you know when that comes out.

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But we're looking to talk to, speak to new clients, as well as new employees and firms or accountants right now. They're looking to retire. OK.

I want to think about selling or merging or whatever. That's excellent. Yeah.

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Wow. I can't believe it. My little Oscar from Vancouver, look at you.

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You're taking over the world. Yeah. One day at a time.

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One day at a time. Taking over the world. Well, I'm looking forward to seeing you for dinner.

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Finally, we're going to do it next week. Yes. Yes.

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I've got that marked on the calendar. You better show up and I'll show up. Oh, I'm so hungry.

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Oh, that's a very nice restaurant. Looking forward to it. But listen, Oscar, I want to thank you so much for all the help you give our clients and even taking their call.

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Like I do the same for you. Take the call. Complimentary here.

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If there's anything we can do and then if we need to dig deep, we do the paid consultant and you do the same. And I like that same philosophy. And I'm looking forward to a long term partnership with Referring Business to Numis.

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Thank you for everything you do. Oh, thank you, Evelyn. And everything.

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We feel the same way. So it's very easy to refer you guys out for the immigration piece. We just tell them if you don't have one or even if you do, let us know if you want to talk to Evelyn.

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She's a good friend. I really appreciate that. Well, that is the end of our podcast with Oscar Sy.

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Thank you all for joining us. Until next time, I'm Evelyn Ackah. Take care.